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Boardwalk Empire
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Boardwalk Empire
Genre
Crime drama
Period drama
Serial drama
Created by
Terence Winter
Based on
Boardwalk Empire: The Birth, High Times, and Corruption of Atlantic City
by Nelson Johnson
Starring
Steve Buscemi
Michael Pitt
Kelly Macdonald
Michael Shannon
Shea Whigham
Aleksa Palladino
Michael Stuhlbarg
Stephen Graham
Vincent Piazza
Paz de la Huerta
Michael Kenneth Williams
Anthony Laciura
Paul Sparks
Dabney Coleman
Jack Huston
Gretchen Mol
Charlie Cox
Bobby Cannavale
Ron Livingston
Jeffrey Wright
Ben Rosenfield
Theme music composer
The Brian Jonestown Massacre
Opening theme
"Straight Up and Down"
Country of origin
United States
Original language(s)
English
No. of seasons
5
No. of episodes
56 (list of episodes)
Production
Executive producer(s)
Terence Winter
Martin Scorsese
Mark Wahlberg
Tim Van Patten
Howard Korder
Stephen Levinson
Location(s)
New York City
Editor(s)
Kate Stanford
Tim Streeto
Camera setup
Single-camera
Running time
50–60 minutes
Production company(s)
HBO Entertainment
Leverage Entertainment
Closest to the Hole Productions
Sikelia Productions
Cold Front Productions
Distributor
HBO Enterprises
Release
Original network
HBO
Original release
September 19, 2010 (2010-09-19) – October 26, 2014 (2014-10-26)
External links
Website
Boardwalk Empire is an American period crime drama television series created by Terence Winter and broadcast on premium cable channel HBO. The series is set in Atlantic City, New Jersey during the Prohibition era and stars Steve Buscemi as Nucky Thompson. Winter, a Primetime Emmy Award-winning screenwriter and producer, created the show, inspired by the book Boardwalk Empire: The Birth, High Times, and Corruption of Atlantic City by Nelson Johnson about historical criminal kingpin Enoch L. Johnson.[1]
The pilot episode was directed by Martin Scorsese and produced at a cost of $18 million.[2] On September 1, 2009, HBO picked up the series for an additional 11 episodes.[3] The series premiered on September 19, 2010,[4] and completed its five-season run on October 26, 2014.[5]
Boardwalk Empire received widespread critical acclaim, particularly for its visual style and basis on historical figures, as well as for Buscemi's lead performance.[6] The series received 57 Primetime Emmy Award nominations, including two for Outstanding Drama Series, winning 20. The series also won the Golden Globe Award for Best Television Series – Drama in 2011 and two Screen Actors Guild Awards for Outstanding Performance by an Ensemble in a Drama Series in 2011 and 2012.
Contents
[hide]
1 Series overview
2 Cast and characters
2.1 Main cast
2.2 Recurring characters
3 Production
3.1 Development
3.2 Casting
3.3 Filming
3.4 Costume design
3.5 Martin Scorsese's contribution
3.6 Crew
3.7 Soundtrack
4 Advertising
5 Reception
5.1 Critical reception
5.2 Awards and nominations
5.3 Ratings
6 References
7 External links
Series overview[edit]
See also: Season 1, Season 2, Season 3, Season 4, and Season 5
Boardwalk Empire is a period drama focusing on Enoch "Nucky" Thompson (based on the historical Enoch L. Johnson),[7] a political figure who rose to prominence and controlled Atlantic City, New Jersey, during the Prohibition period of the 1920s and 1930s. Nucky acts with historical characters in both his personal and political life, including mobsters, politicians, government agents, and the common folk who look up to him. The federal government also takes an interest in the bootlegging and other illegal activities in the area, sending agents to investigate possible mob connections but also looking at Nucky's lifestyle—expensive and lavish for a county political figure. The final season jumps ahead seven years, to 1931, as Prohibition nears its end.
Cast and characters[edit]
Main article: List of Boardwalk Empire characters
Main cast[edit]
Steve Buscemi as Enoch "Nucky" Thompson (seasons 1–5) – the corrupt treasurer of Atlantic County and its most powerful political figure. Based on Atlantic City political boss Enoch L. Johnson.
Michael Pitt as James "Jimmy" Darmody (seasons 1–2) – Nucky's onetime protegé, an honor student who left Princeton to serve in World War I; works briefly for Nucky before striking out on his own into organized crime.
Kelly Macdonald as Margaret Thompson (seasons 1–5) – a young widow and mother, she turns to Nucky and becomes his mistress, and later his wife.
Michael Shannon as Nelson Van Alden / George Mueller (seasons 1–5) – a former Prohibition Agent on the run. Under the alias "George Mueller," he is a bootlegger in the Chicago area working as the muscle for Dean O'Banion's organization, as well as Johnny Torrio's organization.
Shea Whigham as Elias "Eli" Thompson (seasons 1–5) – Nucky's younger brother and former sheriff of Atlantic County. Now works as part of Nucky's organization. Based on Alf Johnson.
Aleksa Palladino as Angela Darmody (seasons 1–2) – Jimmy's wife and the mother of his young son.
Michael Stuhlbarg as Arnold Rothstein (seasons 1–4)[8] – a powerful New York gangster who does business with Nucky. Charlie Luciano, Meyer Lansky and Benjamin Siegel work for him.
Stephen Graham as Al Capone (seasons 1–5) – a violent Chicago gangster who is the right-hand man of Chicago crime boss Johnny Torrio.
Vincent Piazza as Charles "Lucky" Luciano (seasons 1–5) – a New York gangster and associate of Rothstein.
Paz de la Huerta as Lucy Danziger (seasons 1–2) – Nucky's former mistress.
Michael Kenneth Williams as Albert "Chalky" White (seasons 1–5) – a powerful African-American gangster in Atlantic City.
Anthony Laciura as Edward Anselm "Eddie" Kessler (seasons 1–4) – Nucky's loyal butler.
Paul Sparks as Mieczyslaw "Mickey Doyle" Kuzik (seasons 1–5) – an Atlantic City bootlegger.
Dabney Coleman as Commodore Louis Kaestner (seasons 1–2) – Nucky's mentor and predecessor in Atlantic City; Jimmy's father. John Ellison Conlee portrays a young Commodore in the season 5 flashbacks.
Jack Huston as Richard Harrow (recurring season 1; regular seasons 2–4) – a former Army marksman who allies with Jimmy. Disfigured in the war, he wears a tin mask[9] over half of his face.
Gretchen Mol as Gillian Darmody (recurring season 1; regular seasons 2–5) – Jimmy's mother and Nucky's longtime friend.
Charlie Cox as Owen Sleater (recurring season 2; regular season 3) – an IRA volunteer who works for Nucky; also having an affair with Margaret.
Bobby Cannavale as Gyp Rosetti (season 3) – a ruthless gangster who challenges Nucky.
Ron Livingston as Roy Phillips (season 4) – a Pinkerton detective who poses as a wealthy out-of-town businessman who gets involved with Gillian Darmody in order to prosecute her for murder.
Jeffrey Wright as Dr. Valentin Narcisse (seasons 4–5) – a Harlem-based philanthropist and "Doctor of Divinity", who plans to take over the heroin trade in Atlantic City. The character was inspired by Casper Holstein.[10]
Ben Rosenfield as Willie Thompson (recurring season 4; regular season 5) – Eli's son, a Temple University law student and later a lawyer with the Justice Department.
Recurring characters[edit]
Greg Antonacci as Johnny Torrio – Boss of the Chicago Outfit
Anatol Yusef as Meyer Lansky – a young gangster who is a protégé of Rothstein.
Michael Zegen as Benjamin Siegel – Jewish gangster working under childhood friends, Luciano and Lansky
Ivo Nandi as Joe Masseria – leader of the New York mafia and Luciano and Rosetti's boss.
Kevin O'Rourke as Edward L. Bader – mayor of Atlantic City.
Erik LaRay Harvey as Dunn Purnsley – a Baltimore criminal who works for Chalky White's organization.
Heather Lind as Katy – a servant of Nucky and Margaret.
Dominic Chianese as Leander Whitlock – the Commodore's long serving lawyer and eventually an adviser to Jimmy and Gillian.
Julianne Nicholson as Esther Randolph – Assistant US Attorney prosecuting Nucky for electoral fraud and murder.
Peter Van Wagner as Isaac Ginsburg – Nucky's lawyer who influences him to take his lawsuit to the federal level.
David Aaron Baker as Bill Fallon – Arnold Rothstein's lawyer.
Stephen Root as Gaston Means – a forger, swindler, and murder suspect who became a Special Investigator for the United States Department of Justice.[11]
Brian Geraghty as James Tolliver – a Federal Bureau of Investigation agent who begins to investigate Nucky.
Stephen DeRosa as Eddie Cantor – a world-famous vaudeville star.
James Cromwell as Andrew W. Mellon – United States Secretary of the Treasury.
Christopher McDonald as Harry Daugherty – Attorney General of the United States.
William Forsythe as Manny Horvitz – a Philadelphia gangster.
Erik Weiner as Agent Eric Sebso – Van Alden's partner.
William Hill as Alderman George O'Neill – one of Nucky's political cronies.
Robert Clohessy as Alderman Jim Neary – one of Nucky's political cronies.
Max Casella as Leo D'Alessio – a small-time Philadelphia gangster.
Edoardo Ballerini as Ignatius D'Alessio – Leo's brother and another small-time gangster.
Nick Sandow as Waxey Gordon – a Philadelphia gangster and associate of Rothstein.
Billy Magnussen as Roger McAllister – Gillian Darmody's lover.
Meg Chambers Steedle as Lillian "Billie" Kent – A New York showgirl and Nucky's mistress.
Eric Ladin as J. Edgar Hoover – 1st Director of the Federal Bureau of Investigation.
Wrenn Schmidt as Julia Sagorsky – wife of Richard Harrow and guardian of Tommy Darmody.
Natalie Wachen as Lenore White – Chalky's wife.
Brady and Connor Noon as Tommy Darmody – Jimmy and Angela's son.
Lucy and Josie Gallina as Emily Schroeder – Margaret's daughter.
Declan and Rory McTigue as Teddy Schroeder – Margaret's son.
Nisi Sturgis as June Thompson – Eli's wife and mother of their eight children.
Chris Caldovino as Tonino Sandrelli – Gyp's right-hand-man; works for Joe Masseria.
Adam Mucci as Deputy Hollaran – Deputy of Atlantic City under Eli Thompson; worked as Sheriff for 9 years.
Christiane Seidel as Sigrid Mueller – Nelson Van Alden/George Mueller's wife.
Joseph Aniska as Agent Stan Sawicki – a corrupt Atlantic City prohibition agent paid off by Nucky Thompson.
Glenn Fleshler as George Remus – Ohio bootlegger and associate of Nucky Thompson.
Margot Bingham as Daughter Maitland – Onyx Club performer and jazz singer.
Peter Claymore as Peter – Arnold Rothstein's personal bodyguard.
Tracy Middendorf as Babette – owner of Babette's Night Club.
Domenick Lombardozzi as Ralph Capone – Chicago mobster and older brother to Al Capone.
Morgan Spector as Frank Capone – older brother to Al Capone.
Arron Shiver as Dean O'Banion – Chicago bootlegger and leader of the North Side Gang; rival to Al Capone.
Mark Borkowski as Paul Sagorsky – alcoholic war veteran and father of Julia Sagorsky.
Emma Holzer as Edith Thompson – eldest daughter of Eli and June Thompson.
Christina Jackson as Maybelle White – eldest daughter of Chalky and Lenore White; aspiring poet.
Patricia Arquette as Sally Wheet – owner of a speakeasy in Tampa, Florida.
Joseph Riccobene as Frankie Yale – Brooklyn gangster.
Katherine Waterston as Emma Harrow – Richard Harrow's twin sister.
Will Janowitz as Hymie Weiss – Chicago gangster and second in command to Dean O'Banion and the North Side Gang.
Production[edit]
Main article: List of Boardwalk Empire episodes
Season
Episodes
Originally aired
Average viewership
(in millions)
First aired
Last aired
1 12 September 19, 2010 (2010-09-19) December 5, 2010 (2010-12-05) 3.17[12]
2 12 September 25, 2011 (2011-09-25) December 11, 2011 (2011-12-11) 2.73[13]
3 12 September 16, 2012 (2012-09-16) December 2, 2012 (2012-12-02) 2.32[14]
4 12 September 8, 2013 (2013-09-08) November 24, 2013 (2013-11-24) 2.05[15]
5 8 September 7, 2014 (2014-09-07) October 26, 2014 (2014-10-26) 2.01[16]
Development[edit]
Emmy Award-winner Terence Winter, who served as executive producer and writer on the critically acclaimed HBO series The Sopranos, was hired on June 4, 2008 to adapt the non-fiction book Boardwalk Empire: The Birth, High Times, and Corruption of Atlantic City.[17] Winter had already been interested in creating a series set in the 1920s, feeling that it had never properly been explored before. For this reason he decided to focus his adaptation of the book on the section about Prohibition.[18] On September 1, 2009, it was announced that Academy Award-winning director Martin Scorsese would direct the pilot.[19] It would be the first time he had directed an episode of television since an episode of Steven Spielberg's Amazing Stories in 1986.[20] The production would be very ambitious, with some even speculating it would be too large scale for television. "I kept thinking, 'This is pointless. How can we possibly afford a boardwalk, or an empire?'" says creator Terence Winter. "We can't call it 'Boardwalk Empire' and not see a boardwalk."[21] The production would eventually build a 300-foot-long (91 m) boardwalk in an empty lot in Brooklyn, New York, at the cost of $5 million.[22] Despite a reported budget of up to $50 million,[23] the pilot's final budget came in at $18 million.[21]
On why he chose to return to television, Scorsese said "What's happening the past nine to 10 years, particularly at HBO, is what we had hoped for in the mid-'60s with films being made for television at first. We'd hoped there would be this kind of freedom and also the ability to create another world and create long-form characters and story. That didn't happen in the 1970s, 1980s and in the 1990s I think. And of course...HBO is a trailblazer in this. I've been tempted over the years to be involved with them because of the nature of long-form and their development of character and plot."[24] He went on to praise HBO by saying, "A number of the episodes, in so many of their series, they're thoughtful, intelligent [and] brilliantly put together...It's a new opportunity for storytelling. It's very different from television of the past."[25]
Casting[edit]
"Scorsese is an actor magnet," commented Winter. "Everybody wants to work with him. I had all these pictures on my wall and I thought, 'I'd really better write some good stuff for these people.'"[21] In casting the role of Nucky Thompson (based upon real-life Atlantic City political boss Enoch L. Johnson), Winter wanted to stray from the real life Johnson as much as possible. "If we were going to cast accurately what the real Nucky looked like, we'd have cast Jim Gandolfini."[21] The idea of casting Steve Buscemi in the lead role came about when Scorsese mentioned wanting to work with the actor, whom Winter knew well having worked with him on The Sopranos. Winter sent the script out to Buscemi, who responded very enthusiastically. "I just thought, 'Wow. I'm almost sorry I've read this, because if I don't get it, I'm going to be so sad.' My response was 'Terry, I know you're looking at other actors'... and he said, 'No, no, Steve, I said we want you.'"[26] Explained Scorsese, "I love the range he has, his dramatic sense, but also his sense of humor."[26]
The casting of Buscemi was soon followed by Michael Pitt, best known for his roles in films such as Murder by Numbers, The Dreamers, and in the television series Dawson's Creek.[27] He was soon joined by Kelly Macdonald, Vincent Piazza and Michael Shannon, who had just received an Oscar nomination for his role in the Sam Mendes film Revolutionary Road.[28]
Filming[edit]
Filming for the pilot took place at various locations in and around New York City in June 2009.[29][30] In creating the visual effects for the series, the company turned to Brooklyn-based effects company Brainstorm Digital. Says Glenn Allen, visual effects producer for Boardwalk Empire and co-founder of Brainstorm, "It's our most complex job to date. Everything is HD now, so we have to treat it like a feature film."[31] "Anytime you get to work on a period piece, it's more fun," comments visual effects artist Chris "Pinkus" Wesselman, who used archival photographs, postcards, and architectural plans to recreate the Atlantic City boardwalks as accurately as possible. "We got to explore what the old Atlantic City was really like. The piers were one of the toughest parts because every summer they would change—new houses, new advertisements."[31] It took two months for the firm to complete all the visual effects for the pilot.[31] Boardwalk Empire began filming on location at Historic Richmond Town on Staten Island in March 2012.[32]
Costume design[edit]
Designed by John Dunn and tailored by Martin Greenfield, Boardwalk Empire's costumes were based on 1920s tailoring books from the Fashion Institute of Technology's research libraries and examples found at the Brooklyn Museum and the Met. The costumes have also been rented from the Daybreak Vintage Company located in Albany, NY which also exhibits at the Manhattan Vintage Clothing Show. Dunn's designs were meticulously detailed, including a collar pin for Nucky's shirts and even going so far as to incorporate specially ordered woolens for suiting. Dunn told Esquire magazine in a September 2010 interview, "With Marty and Terry Winters, I developed the feel for each of the characters. We all wanted it to be very, very accurate and specific to the period.... I don't like to do boring clothing, but you also have to make sure that you're not suddenly putting somebody in something that isn't going to make sense four episodes from now."[33] These tailors were supplied by textile importer HMS fabrics and Gladson ltd.
Martin Scorsese's contribution[edit]
Martin Scorsese (pictured in 2006) directed the pilot.
Martin Scorsese was involved in the filming even before creator Terence Winter. He directed the pilot and established the look of the show, which other directors later emulated for consistency. He is also one of the executive producers of the show. Winter has stated that Scorsese weighed in on the casting decisions and reviewed all of the cuts and dailies. Up until the shooting of the show's first season, Scorsese and Winter would meet every Sunday afternoon to review what went on during the week where Scorsese would have comments and suggestions. Scorsese continued to be creatively involved in the ongoing production, but did not direct any more episodes.[34]
Crew[edit]
Scorsese and Winter were joined as executive producers by Mark Wahlberg, Stephen Levinson and Tim Van Patten. Van Patten had been a regular director on The Sopranos and also served as a regular director for Boardwalk Empire. Lawrence Konner was a co-executive producer. Konner also wrote for the show and had previously been a writer on The Sopranos. Howard Korder and Margaret Nagle served as supervising producers and writers for the first season. The crew were recognized with multiple Primetime Emmy Award nominations for their work on the first season.[35] Korder returned as a co-executive producer and writer for the show's second season and as an executive producer in the third season.
Soundtrack[edit]
The music used for the opening titles is "Straight Up and Down" by The Brian Jonestown Massacre. It was chosen by series creator Winter to create a sense of the "unexpected."[36]
The soundtrack is composed of music from the 1890s to 1920s performed by artists such as Regina Spektor, Leon Redbone, Loudon Wainwright III, Martha Wainwright, Catherine Russell, Nellie McKay, Kathy Brier, and Vince Giordano and the Nighthawks Orchestra. Boardwalk Empire Volume 1: Music from the HBO Original Series, featuring music from seasons 1 and 2, was released on September 13, 2011.[37]
The soundtrack won the Grammy Award for Best Compilation Soundtrack for Visual Media at the 54th Grammy Awards.[38]
Advertising[edit]
IRT LoV car 5443 advertising Boardwalk Empire's second season
To promote the second season, which started on September 25, 2011, the producers paid the Metropolitan Transportation Authority $150,000 to decorate and operate a New York Transit Museum train of four retired New York City Subway Lo-V cars for each weekend in September 2011. The subway cars used were 5290, 5292 (both built in 1917), 5443, 5483 (both built in 1924). The train operated between noon and 6 p.m. and as an express between 96th Street and Times Square–42nd Street Subway on the IRT Broadway–Seventh Avenue Line. While the MTA runs "nostalgia trains" each year, this was the first time they had been used for an advertising tie-in.[39]
HBO also sponsored an Atlantic City beautification project with the tag line "Compliments of Nucky Thompson" and paid for eastbound tolls into Atlantic City on the AC Expressway for the weekend of September 24, 2011.[39]
Reception[edit]
Critical reception[edit]
Boardwalk Empire has received critical acclaim. For its first and second seasons, The American Film Institute named Boardwalk Empire one of the ten "best television programs of the year."[40][41]
Metacritic ratings per season
Season 1
Season 2
Season 3
Season 4
Season 5
Rating
88[42] 82[43] 76[44] 77[45] 83[46]
On the review aggregator website Metacritic, the first season scored 88 out of 100,[42] and the second season scored 81 out of 100,[43] both indicating "universal acclaim." The third season scored 76 of 100,[44] and the fourth season scored 77 out of 100,[45] both indicating "generally favorable reviews." In the show's fifth and final season, it scored 83 out of 100.[46]
On another review aggregator site, Rotten Tomatoes, the first season received a rating of 93%. Season two received an 88%, the third season an 87% and the fourth season a 97%, stating "Boardwalk Empire continues to benefit from its meticulously realized period trappings, but what keeps the show watchable is its supremely talented ensemble players".[47] The fifth season of the show holds a rating of 90%, with the site's consensus reading: "The final season of Boardwalk Empire is as visually dazzling and well-acted as ever, but it's the emphasis on Nucky Thompson's history that's particularly rewarding this time out."[48]
David Hinkley of the New York Daily News awarded the series five stars, saying, "Watching HBO's new 'Boardwalk Empire' is like sitting in your favorite tavern and hearing someone say, 'Drinks are on the house.' Friends, it does not get much better."[49] Paige Wiser of the Chicago Sun-Times called it "... an event not to be missed," and praised Buscemi in particular, calling his performance "fascinating."[6]
TV Guide's Matt Roush praised the partnership of Scorsese and Winter, saying it "... brilliantly marries Martin Scorsese's virtuosic cinematic eye to Terence Winter's panoramic mastery of rich character and eventful story," and finished his review by stating, "It's the most purely—and impurely—enjoyable storytelling HBO has delivered in ages, like a movie that you never want to end."[50]
Variety's Brian Lowry praised the show for returning network HBO to top form, saying, "This is, quite simply, television at its finest, occupying a sweet spot that—for all the able competition—still remains unique to HBO: An expensive, explicit, character-driven program, tackling material no broadcast network or movie studio would dare touch ... For those wondering when the channel would deliver another franchise to definitively put it on top of the world, Ma, the wait is over: Go directly to Boardwalk."[21]
"One of the unexpected joys of Boardwalk Empire, though, lies in the way the show revels in the oddities of its time, peeling back the layers of polite society to reveal a giddy shadow world of criminals and politicians collaborating to keep the liquor flowing," says online magazine Salon's Heather Havrilesky, who went on to call the pilot "breathtaking."[51] Roberto Bianco from USA Today said in his review that Boardwalk Empire was "Extravagantly produced, shockingly violent and as cold and hard as ice, Boardwalk Empire brings us back to the world's former playground at the start of Prohibition—and brings HBO back to the forefront of the TV-series race."[52]
The second season received widespread acclaim. Verne Gay from Newsday stated that "Mad Men, of course, remains the King of the Emmys, while Empire nailed the equally prestigious Golden Globe for best drama last winter. But Sunday begins to build the case for Empire, and build it convincingly."[53] Matt Roush of TV Guide stated, "This is a gorgeous piece of storytelling that requires and rewards patience."[54] Brian Lowry stated in his review for Variety that: "A few creative flourishes feel a trifle heavy-handed – starting with Shannon's philandering fed. Unlike Nucky, though, Boardwalk isn't campaigning for anything except the gratitude of a pay-cable audience (and award voters) eager to take refuge in its sordid charms. By that measure, the show doesn't just go down smoothly; it's good to the last illicit, intoxicating drop."[55]
Nancy Franklin of The New Yorker considered Buscemi miscast as the central figure in the drama. "Buscemi can’t play that kind of character; even at the age of fifty-two, he looks cagey and restless—not like a guy at the top but like the guy who gets killed when he tries to knock off the guy at the top." The review concludes "Boardwalk Empire” is at great pains to give viewers a sense that they are there, and yet rarely did I feel engrossed in the show. Even if its point is to show you the ugly side of fun, Boardwalk Empire should be much more fun to watch."[56]
Alessandra Stanley of The New York Times review states that "surprisingly, given the extraordinary talent and money behind it, Boardwalk Empire falls short. One possible reason is that the star, Steve Buscemi, is hard to accept in the lead role of Enoch Thompson," going on to observe "it takes a lot of squinting to see him as a powerbroker straddling two worlds."[57]
Awards and nominations[edit]
Main article: List of awards and nominations received by Boardwalk Empire
On July 14, 2011, for the 63rd Primetime Emmy Awards, Boardwalk Empire was nominated for 18 Primetime Emmy Awards for the first season that included Outstanding Drama Series, Outstanding Lead Actor in a Drama Series (Steve Buscemi), and Outstanding Supporting Actress in a Drama Series (Kelly Macdonald), with Martin Scorsese winning Outstanding Directing for a Drama Series, along with seven other wins at the Creative Arts Emmy Awards.[58] Boardwalk Empire won the Writers Guild of America Award for Best New Series and was nominated for Best Dramatic Series.[59] In addition, the show won the Golden Globe Award for Best Television Series – Drama and Steve Buscemi won Best Actor – Television Series Drama, while Kelly Macdonald was nominated for Best Supporting Actress – Series, Miniseries, or Television Film. The cast won the Screen Actors Guild Award for Outstanding Performance by an Ensemble in a Drama Series in 2011 and 2012, while Steve Buscemi won for Outstanding Performance by a Male Actor in a Drama Series as well in 2011 and 2012, for the first and second season. In 2011, Martin Scorsese won the Directors Guild of America Award for Outstanding Directing – Drama Series for the pilot. Boardwalk Empire was also listed in the American Film Institute's Top Ten List for Television in 2010 and 2011 for the first and second season.
Boardwalk Empire also won two awards at the 9th Annual Visual Effects Society Awards. The first for Outstanding Supporting Visual Effects in a Broadcast Program and second for Outstanding Models & Miniatures in a Broadcast Program or Commercial. The former was received by Richard Friedlander (of Brainstorm Digital), Robert Stromberg, Paul Graff and David Taritero; the latter was received by Brendan Fitzgerald, John Corbett and Matthew Conner of Brainstorm Digital.[60] The show's Season One Soundtrack won the Grammy Award for Best Compilation Soundtrack for Visual Media in 2012.
For the second season, Boardwalk Empire won once again for the Primetime Emmy Award for Outstanding Directing for a Drama Series for Tim Van Patten for the season finale "To the Lost", along with three other wins at the Creative Arts Emmy Awards.
For the third season, Bobby Cannavale won the show's first acting award at the 65th Primetime Emmy Awards for Outstanding Supporting Actor in a Drama Series for his portrayal of Gyp Rosetti, along with four other wins at the Creative Arts Emmy Awards.
Ratings[edit]
On its original airing, the pilot episode gained a 2.0/5 ratings share among adults aged 18–49 and garnered 4.81 million viewers.[61] The episode was re-played twice that night, once at 10:15 p.m. and again at 11:30 p.m. Taking these broadcasts into account, a total of 7.1 million Americans viewed the episode on the night of its original broadcast, and is the highest rated premiere for an HBO series since the pilot of Deadwood in March 2004. The season finale was watched by 3.29 million viewers, attaining a 1.3 rating adults aged 18–49.[62]
The second-season premiere was watched by 2.91 million viewers, down 39% from the pilot and down 12% from its first-season finale.[63]
Boardwalk Empire : U.S. viewers per episode (millions)
Season
Ep. 1
Ep. 2
Ep. 3
Ep. 4
Ep. 5
Ep. 6
Ep. 7
Ep. 8
Ep. 9
Ep. 10
Ep. 11
Ep. 12
1
4.81 3.33 3.41 2.57 2.85 2.81 2.67 3.21 2.98 3.05 3.00 3.29
2
2.91 2.59 2.86 2.55 2.69 2.63 2.74 2.54 2.55 2.73 2.97 3.01
3
2.89 2.62 2.36 2.11 2.19 2.34 1.97 2.09 2.06 2.18 2.30 2.73
4
2.38 2.21 1.87 1.99 2.09 1.90 2.16 1.91 1.90 2.08 1.98 2.18
5
2.37 1.81 2.11 2.05 1.94 1.55 1.95 2.33 N/A
Source: Nielsen Media Research[64][65][66][67]
References[edit]
Jump up ^ Kinon, Cristina (September 8, 2010). "HBO's 'Boardwalk Empire' uses New York as a stand-in for Atlantic City, Chicago and Los Angeles". New York Daily News. Retrieved October 21, 2010.
Jump up ^ Littleton, Cynthia (August 7, 2010). "HBO lays a big-bucks bet on 'Boardwalk'". Variety. Retrieved January 4, 2012.
Jump up ^ Andreeva, Nellie (September 1, 2009). "HBO orders Boardwalk Empire". The Hollywood Reporter. Retrieved April 21, 2011.
Jump up ^ Sciretta, Peter (July 9, 2010). "HBO Announces Premiere Date for Boardwalk Empire". /Film. Retrieved July 12, 2010.
Jump up ^ Goodman, Tim (October 26, 2014). "'Boardwalk Empire' Finale: What Was and Might Have Been". The Hollywood Reporter. Retrieved October 26, 2014.
^ Jump up to: a b Wiser, Paige (September 17, 2010). "HBO hits jackpot with mob series 'Boardwalk Empire'". Chicago Sun-Times. Archived from the original on September 21, 2010. Retrieved September 27, 2010.
Jump up ^ Stanley, Alessandra (September 16, 2010). "Boardwalk Empire". The New York Times. Retrieved September 2, 2013.
Jump up ^ Sepinwall, Alan (September 2, 2014). "'Boardwalk Empire' creator Terence Winter previews final season, jump forward in time". HitFix. Retrieved September 2, 2014.
Jump up ^ Alexander, Caroline (February 2007). "Faces of War Amid the horrors of World War I, a corps of artists brought hope to soldiers disfigured in the trenches". Smithsonian Magazine. Retrieved March 15, 2014.
Jump up ^ Moaba, Alex (September 5, 2013). "'Boardwalk Empire': Jeffrey Wright On The Real-Life Racketeer Who Inspired His Season 4 Character (VIDEO)". The Huffington Post. Retrieved September 17, 2013.
Jump up ^ Goldberg, Lesley (February 10, 2012). "'Boardwalk Empire' Adds 'Justified,' 'True Blood' Actor as Recurring Lawman". The Hollywood Reporter. Retrieved May 27, 2012.
Jump up ^ "2010 Year in Review/2011 Year in Preview: HBO". The Futon Critic. January 25, 2011. Retrieved December 24, 2015.
Jump up ^ "2011 Ratings Recap: Cable's Scripted Dramas - What's Up? What's Down? What's on Top?". The Futon Critic. January 5, 2012. Retrieved December 24, 2015.
Jump up ^ "Boardwalk Empire: Season Three Ratings". TV Series Finale. December 4, 2012. Retrieved December 24, 2015.
Jump up ^ "Boardwalk Empire: Season Four Ratings". TV Series Finale. November 26, 2013. Retrieved December 24, 2015.
Jump up ^ "Boardwalk Empire: Season Five Ratings". TV Series Finale. October 28, 2014. Retrieved December 24, 2015.
Jump up ^ "Terence Winter Set to Write Martin Scorsese's Boardwalk Empire". MovieWeb. June 4, 2008. Retrieved August 10, 2010.
Jump up ^ Goldman, Eric (August 7, 2010). "Scorsese Introduces Boardwalk Empire". IGN. Archived from the original on October 13, 2013. Retrieved August 10, 2010.
Jump up ^ Andreeva, Nellie (September 1, 2009). "Scorsese to Direct Pilot for HBO's 'Boardwalk Empire'". Back Stage. Retrieved August 10, 2010.
Jump up ^ Hercules (August 7, 2008). "Scorsese May Direct First TV Show Since AMAZING STORIES!!!". Ain't It Cool News. Retrieved August 10, 2010.
^ Jump up to: a b c d e Lowry, Brian (September 12, 2010). "Review: Boardwalk Empire". Variety. Retrieved September 29, 2010.
Jump up ^ Johnson, Lynda (August 8, 2010). "Boardwalk Empire Pilot, $18 Million 'Bigs Buck Bet' for HBO". The National Ledger. Retrieved August 10, 2010.
Jump up ^ Barna, Ben (January 15, 2010). "HBO's 'Boardwalk Empire' Cost $50 Million: How They Gonna Make It Back?". Black Book. Archived from the original on November 18, 2011. Retrieved August 10, 2010.
Jump up ^ Finke, Nikki (August 7, 2010). "TCA: Why Marty Scorsese Is Now Doing TV". Deadline Hollywood. Retrieved August 10, 2010.
Jump up ^ Jeffery, Morgan (August 9, 2010). "Martin Scorsese praises HBO". Digital Spy. Retrieved August 10, 2010.
^ Jump up to: a b Sepinwall, Alan (August 7, 2010). "Press Tour: HBO's Boardwalk Empire brings Martin Scorsese to television". Hit Fix. Retrieved August 10, 2010.
Jump up ^ Mitovich, Matt (January 2, 2009). "Pilot News: Michael Pitt Walks Boardwalk for HBO and Scorsese". TV Guide. Retrieved August 10, 2010.
Jump up ^ Hit Fix Staff (January 29, 2009). "New Oscar nominee joins Scorsese's HBO pilot". Hit Fix. Archived from the original on January 16, 2010. Retrieved August 10, 2010.
Jump up ^ Guthrie, Marisa (June 8, 2009). "HBO Not 'Hung' Up on Decision Making". Broadcasting & Cable. Retrieved August 11, 2010.
Jump up ^ McGrath, Charles (September 3, 2010). "On the Boardwalk, HBO Hangs Out With a New Mob". The New York Times. Retrieved June 25, 2011.
^ Jump up to: a b c Lipkin, Michael (August 4, 2009). "DUMBO biz Brainstorm and Martin Scorsese team up for HBO project 'Boardwalk Empire'". New York Daily News. New York. Retrieved August 11, 2010.
Jump up ^ Sherry, Virginia N. (April 4, 2012). "Historic Richmond Town serving as set for 'Boardwalk Empire'". Staten Island Advance. Retrieved April 5, 2012.
Jump up ^ Peskowitz, Josh (September 15, 2010). "The Bespoke Gangster Style of HBO's 'Boardwalk Empire'". Esquire. Retrieved October 21, 2010.
Jump up ^ Ryan, Maureen (September 14, 2010). "Martin Scorsese and Terence Winter Interview". Collider.com. Retrieved October 5, 2010.
Jump up ^ "Boardwalk Empire". Emmys.com. Retrieved February 11, 2013.
Jump up ^ Halperin, Shirley; Ginsberg, Merle (September 25, 2011). "'Boardwalk Empire' Theme: Series Creator Explains Decision to Use Contemporary Music". The Hollywood Reporter. Retrieved August 24, 2012.
Jump up ^ "Boardwalk Empire (Volume 1 Music From The Hbo Original Series) Soundtrack". CD Universe. Retrieved August 24, 2012.
Jump up ^ "54th Annual GRAMMY Awards Nominees And Winners". Grammy.com. The Recording Academy. 2012. Retrieved August 24, 2012.
^ Jump up to: a b Iezzi, Teressa (September 2, 2011). "NYC's MTA Takes The 2/3 Train To Yesteryear For HBO's "Boardwalk Empire" Campaign". Fast Company. Retrieved October 2, 2011.
Jump up ^ Seidman, Robert (December 12, 2010). "AFI Awards Selections Announced: 'The Walking Dead,' 'Breaking Bad,' 'Glee,' '30 Rock' and 'Boardwalk Empire' Among TV Winners". TV by the Numbers. Retrieved February 8, 2011.
Jump up ^ Gelman, Vlada (December 11, 2011). "AFI's Top 10 of '11: Homeland, Game of Thrones, Justified and Louie Among First-Time Honorees". TVLine. Retrieved October 13, 2013.
^ Jump up to: a b "Boardwalk Empire: Season 1". Metacritic. Retrieved November 27, 2015.
^ Jump up to: a b "Boardwalk Empire: Season 2". Metacritic. Retrieved November 27, 2015.
^ Jump up to: a b "Boardwalk Empire: Season 3". Metacritic. Retrieved November 27, 2015.
^ Jump up to: a b "Boardwalk Empire: Season 4". Metacritic. Retrieved November 27, 2015.
^ Jump up to: a b "Boardwalk Empire: Season 5". Metacritic. Retrieved November 27, 2015.
Jump up ^ "Boardwalk Empire: Season 4 (2013)". Rotten Tomatoes. Retrieved May 22, 2014.
Jump up ^ "Boardwalk Empire: Season 5 (2014)". Rotten Tomatoes. Retrieved September 15, 2014.
Jump up ^ Hinkley, David (September 17, 2010). "'Boardwalk Empire' impressively recounts roaring 20's". New York Daily News. Retrieved September 29, 2010.
Jump up ^ Roush, Matt (September 16, 2010). "Roush Review: Dazzling Boardwalk: I'll Drink to That!". TV Guide. Retrieved September 29, 2010.
Jump up ^ Havrilesky, Heather (September 11, 2010). ""Boardwalk Empire": Gangsters return triumphantly to HBO". Salon.com. Retrieved September 29, 2010.
Jump up ^ Bianco, Robert (September 17, 2010). "HBO builds a mighty, brutal 'Boardwalk Empire'". USA Today. Retrieved September 29, 2010.
Jump up ^ Gay, Verne. "'Boardwalk Empire' returns in grand style". Newsday. Retrieved September 22, 2011.
Jump up ^ Roush, Matt. "Matt's Guide to Weekend TV: New and Returning Shows". TV Guide. Retrieved September 23, 2011.
Jump up ^ Lowry, Brian (September 19, 2011). "Review: 'Boardwalk Empire'". Variety. Retrieved September 19, 2011.
Jump up ^ Franklin, Nancy (September 20, 2010). "Jersey Boys". The New Yorker. Retrieved September 11, 2016.
Jump up ^ Stanley, Alessandra (September 16, 2010). "Jersey Shore, the Early Years". The New York Times. Retrieved September 11, 2016.
Jump up ^ Hibberd, James (July 14, 2011). "Emmy nominations 2011: 'Boardwalk Empire,' 'Game of Thrones' score drama series nods". Entertainment Weekly. Retrieved October 13, 2013.
Jump up ^ "2011 WGA Awards TV Nominees Announced". Writers Guild of America. December 8, 2010. Archived from the original on February 11, 2012. Retrieved October 13, 2013.
Jump up ^ "9th Annual VES Awards". Visual Effects Society. February 1, 2011. Retrieved October 13, 2013.
Jump up ^ Seidman, Robert (September 21, 2010). "Sunday Cable Ratings: Boardwalk Empire Premieres; Rubicon Still Struggling + The Glades, Mad Men, Kardashians & Lots More". TV by the Numbers. Retrieved September 22, 2010.
Jump up ^ Gorman, Bill (December 7, 2010). "Sunday Cable Ratings: 'The Walking Dead,' 'Boardwalk Empire' Finales Rise; 'Sarah Palin's Alaska,' 'Dexter,' 'The Hasslehoffs' & More". TV by the Numbers. Retrieved December 8, 2010.
Jump up ^ Gorman, Bill (September 27, 2011). "Sunday Cable Ratings: 'Jeff Dunham' Tops Night, As 'Boardwalk Empire' Premiere Drops; + 'Breaking Bad,' 'Sister Wives,' 'Ice Road Truckers' & More". TV by the Numbers. Retrieved September 28, 2011.
Jump up ^ "Updated: 'Game of Thrones' Ratings: Season One". TV by the Numbers. June 19, 2011. Archived from the original on July 26, 2017. Retrieved July 26, 2017.
Jump up ^ "Boardwalk Empire: Season Three Ratings". TV Series Finale. December 4, 2012. Retrieved July 26, 2017.
Jump up ^ "Boardwalk Empire: Season Four Ratings". TV Series Finale. November 26, 2013. Retrieved July 26, 2017.
Jump up ^ "Boardwalk Empire: Season Five Ratings". TV Series Finale. October 28, 2014. Retrieved July 26, 2017.
External links[edit]
Wikiquote has quotations related to: Boardwalk Empire
Official website
Boardwalk Empire on IMDb
Boardwalk Empire at TV.com
[show]
v
t
e
Boardwalk Empire
Episodes
Season 1
"Boardwalk Empire"
"The Ivory Tower"
"Broadway Limited"
"Anastasia"
"Nights in Ballygran"
"Family Limitation"
"Home"
"Hold Me in Paradise"
"Belle Femme"
"The Emerald City"
"Paris Green"
"A Return to Normalcy"
Season 2
"21"
"Ourselves Alone"
"A Dangerous Maid"
"What Does the Bee Do?"
"Gimcrack & Bunkum"
"The Age of Reason"
"To the Lost"
Season 3
Season 4
Season 5
"Eldorado"
Characters
Nucky Thompson
Jimmy Darmody
Margaret Thompson
Gyp Rosetti
Richard Harrow
Mickey Doyle
Soundtrack
Volume 1
Volume 2
[show]
Awards for Boardwalk Empire
[show]
v
t
e
Golden Globe Award for Best Television Series – Drama
Marcus Welby, M.D., season 1 (1969)
Medical Center, season 1/season 2 (1970)
Mannix, season 4/season 5 (1971)
Columbo, season 1/season 2 (1972)
The Waltons, season 1/season 2 (1973)
Upstairs, Downstairs, season 3/season 4 (1974)
Kojak, season 2/season 3 (1975)
Rich Man, Poor Man (1976)
Roots (1977)
60 Minutes (1978)
Lou Grant, season 2/season 3 (1979)
Shōgun (1980)
Hill Street Blues, season 1/season 2 (1981)
Hill Street Blues, season 2/season 3 (1982)
Dynasty, season 3/season 4 (1983)
Murder, She Wrote, season 1 (1984)
Murder, She Wrote, season 1/season 2 (1985)
L.A. Law, season 1 (1986)
L.A. Law, season 1/season 2 (1987)
thirtysomething, season 1/season 2 (1988)
China Beach, season 2/season 3 (1989)
Twin Peaks, season 1/season 2 (1990)
Northern Exposure, season 2/season 3 (1991)
Northern Exposure, season 3/season 4 (1992)
NYPD Blue, season 1 (1993)
The X-Files, season 1/season 2 (1994)
Party of Five, season 1/season 2 (1995)
The X-Files, season 3/season 4 (1996)
The X-Files, season 4/season 5 (1997)
The Practice, season 2/season 3 (1998)
The Sopranos, season 1 (1999)
The West Wing, season 1/season 2 (2000)
Six Feet Under, season 1 (2001)
The Shield, season 1 (2002)
24, season 2/season 3 (2003)
Nip/Tuck, season 2 (2004)
Lost, season 1/season 2 (2005)
Grey's Anatomy, season 2/season 3 (2006)
Mad Men, season 1 (2007)
Mad Men, season 2 (2008)
Mad Men, season 3 (2009)
Boardwalk Empire, season 1 (2010)
Homeland, season 1 (2011)
Homeland, season 2 (2012)
Breaking Bad, season 5, part II (2013)
The Affair, season 1 (2014)
Mr. Robot, season 1 (2015)
The Crown, season 1 (2016)
The Handmaid's Tale, season 1 (2017)
[show]
v
t
e
Screen Actors Guild Award for Outstanding Performance by an Ensemble in a Drama Series (2010–2019)
2010: Boardwalk Empire, season 1
Antonacci
Buscemi
Coleman
Graham
de la Huerta
Laciura
Macdonald
Mol
Palladino
Piazza
Pitt
Shannon
Sparks
Stuhlbarg
Weiner
Whigham
2011: Boardwalk Empire, season 2
Buscemi
Chianese
Clohessy
Coleman
Cox
J. Gallina
L. Gallina
Graham
Huston
Laciura
Lind
Macdonald
D. McTigue
R. McTigue
Mol
B. Noon
C. Noon
O'Rourke
Palladino
Pennewill
Piazza
Pitt
Shannon
Sparks
Stuhlbarg
Van Wagner
Whigham
Williams
Yusef
2012: Downton Abbey, series 2
Bonneville
Boyle
Carmichael
Carter
Coyle
Dockery
Findlay
Finneran
Froggatt
Glen
Howes
James-Collier
Leech
Logan
McGovern
McShera
Nicol
Nuttall
Robb
Smith
Stevens
Wilton
2013: Breaking Bad, season 5, part II
Bowen
Brandt
Cranston
Crawford
Fletcher
Fraser
Gunn
Metzler
Mitte
Norris
Odenkirk
Paul
Plemons
Quezada
Rankin
Sane
2014: Downton Abbey, series 4
Bonneville
Carmichael
Carter
Coyle
Dockery
Doyle
Froggatt
James
James-Collier
Leech
Logan
McGovern
McShera
Milne
Robb
Smith
Speleers
Theobold
Wilton
2015: Downton Abbey, series 5
Bonneville
Carmichael
Carter
Cassidy
Coyle
Dockery
Doyle
Froggatt
James
James-Collier
Leech
Logan
McGovern
McShera
Nicol
Ovenden
Smith
Wilton
2016: Stranger Things, season 1
Brown
Buono
Chrest
Dyer
Harbour
Heaton
Keery
Matarazzo
McLaughlin
Modine
Morgan
Reynolds
Ryder
Schnapp
Steger
Wolfhard
2017: This Is Us, season 1/season 2
Baker
Breckenridge
Brown
Chavis
Hartley
Herman
Jones
Metz
Moore
Sullivan
Milo Ventimiglia
Watson
Zeile
Complete list
(1994–1999)
(2000–2009)
(2010–present)
[show]
v
t
e
Producers Guild of America Award for Best Episodic Drama
Northern Exposure, season 1 (1991)
I’ll Fly Away, season 1 (1992)
NYPD Blue, season 1 (1993)
ER, season 1 (1994)
Frasier, season 2 (1995)
Law & Order, season 6 (1996)
The Practice, season 2 (1998)
The Sopranos, season 1 (1999)
The West Wing, season 1 (2000)
The West Wing, season 2 (2001)
24, season 1 (2002)
Six Feet Under, season 2 (2003)
The Sopranos, season 5 (2004)
Lost, season 1 (2005)
Grey’s Anatomy, season 2 (2006)
The Sopranos, season 6, part II (2007)
Mad Men, season 1 (2008)
Mad Men, season 2 (2009)
Mad Men, season 3 (2010)
Boardwalk Empire, season 1 (2011)
Homeland, season 1 (2012)
Breaking Bad, season 5, part I (2013)
Breaking Bad, season 5, part II (2014)
Game of Thrones, season 5 (2015)
Stranger Things, season 1 (2016)
The Handmaid's Tale, season 1 (2017)
[show]
v
t
e
HBO programming
[show]
Former
Series
1970s debuts
Inside the NFL
On Location
Race for the Pennant
Standing Room Only ("Vanities")
Tennis on HBO
Time Was
1980s debuts
1st & Ten
America Undercover ("Autopsy", "Real Sex" and "Taxicab Confessions")
Babar
Braingames
Encyclopedia
Encyclopedia Brown
Fraggle Rock
The Ghost of Faffner Hall
The Hitchhiker
The Kids in the Hall
Maximum Security
Not Necessarily the News
One Night Stand
Philip Marlowe, Private Eye
The Ray Bradbury Theater
The Storyteller
Tales from the Crypt
Video Jukebox
1990s debuts
The Adventures of Tintin
Arliss
The Chris Rock Show
The Country Mouse and the City Mouse Adventures
Crashbox
Def Comedy Jam
Dennis Miller Live
Dream On
George and Martha
Happily Ever After: Fairy Tales for Every Child
HBO Comedy Half-Hour
Hotel Room
The Larry Sanders Show
Lifestories: Families in Crisis
A Little Curious
The Little Lulu Show
Mokku of the Oak Tree
Mr. Show with Bob and David
The Neverending Story
Oz
Perversions of Science
Pippi Longstocking
Rainbow Fish
Reverb
Sex and the City
The Sopranos
Spicy City
Tenacious D
Todd McFarlane's Spawn
Tracey Takes On...
2000s debuts
Animated Tales of the World
Big Love
Bored to Death
Carnivàle
Cathouse: The Series
Classical Baby
Costas Now
Da Ali G Show
Deadwood
Def Poetry Jam
Eastbound & Down
The Electric Company
Entourage
Extras
Flight of the Conchords
G String Divas
Harold and the Purple Crayon
Hung
I Spy
In Treatment
Joe Buck Live
John from Cincinnati
K Street
Kindergarten
KO Nation
The Life & Times of Tim
Little Britain USA
Lucky Louie
The Mind of the Married Man
The No. 1 Ladies' Detective Agency
On the Record with Bob Costas
Pinky Dinky Doo
Pornucopia
Project Greenlight
Rome
Six Feet Under
Stuart Little: The Animated Series
Summer Heights High
Tales from the Neverending Story
Tell Me You Love Me
True Blood
Tourgasm
Unscripted
The Wire
2010s debuts
After the Thrones
Angry Boys
Any Given Wednesday with Bill Simmons
Boardwalk Empire
The Brink
Doll & Em
Enlightened
Family Tree
Funny or Die Presents
Getting On
Girls
Hello Ladies
How to Make It in America
Ja'mie: Private School Girl
Jonah from Tonga
The Leftovers
Life's Too Short
Looking
Luck
Masterclass
The Newsroom
The Ricky Gervais Show
Togetherness
Treme
Vice Principals
Vinyl
Miniseries
All the Rivers Run
Angels in America
Assume the Position with Mr. Wuhl
Band of Brothers
The Casual Vacancy
The Corner
Elizabeth I
Empire Falls
From the Earth to the Moon
Foo Fighters: Sonic Highways
Generation Kill
House of Saddam
The Jinx: The Life and Deaths of Robert Durst
John Adams
Laurel Avenue
Mildred Pierce
The Night Of
Olive Kitteridge
The Pacific
Parade's End
Show Me a Hero
Tanner '88
[show]
Current and upcoming
Current
All Def Comedy (since 2016)
Animals. (since 2016)
Ballers (since 2015)
Big Little Lies (since 2017)
Boxing After Dark (since 1996)
The Comeback (2005; since 2014)
Crashing (since 2017)
Curb Your Enthusiasm (since 2000)
The Deuce (since 2017)
Divorce (since 2016)
Game of Thrones (since 2011)
Hard Knocks (since 2001)
HBO World Championship Boxing (since 1973)
High Maintenance (since 2016)
Insecure (since 2016)
Last Week Tonight with John Oliver (since 2014)
Real Sports with Bryant Gumbel (since 1995)
Real Time with Bill Maher (since 2003)
Room 104 (since 2017)
Sesame Street (since 2016)
Silicon Valley (since 2014)
Tracey Ullman's Show (since 2016)
True Detective (since 2014)
Veep (since 2012)
Vice (since 2013)
Vice News Tonight (since 2016)
Westworld (since 2016)
The Young Pope (since 2017)
Upcoming
American Lion (TBA)
Barry (2018)
Confederate (TBA)
Esme and Roy (TBA)
Gentleman Jack (TBA)
Here and Now (2018)
Mosaic (2018)
Sharp Objects (2018)
Succession (2018)
See also
HBO Storybook Musicals
HBO Latin America original series
HBO Canada original series
Retrieved from "https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Boardwalk_Empire&oldid=817083005"
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Wikipedia talk:Manual of Style/Archive (punctuation)
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This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page.
Contents
1 Making possessives
2 Punctuation as punctuation
3 Hyphens
4 Possessives of words ending in 's'
Making possessives
I've always followed the prescription of The Elements of Style for making a possessive from a proper name ending in s: One adds an apostrophe and another s. I don't have my copy ready to hand, but I believe the example concerned a royal tonsillectomy, in which the surgeon removed the tonsils and the copyeditor removed the s. (The authors condemned a newspaper reference to Charles' tonsils -- the correct form being Charles's tonsils.) I think the same rule would apply in the rare case of a singular noun that ends in s, e.g., the brass's polish would be correct. Of course, a plural possessive takes a simple apostrophe (the books' covers).
In the article on Bobby Fischer, I happened to notice a reference to his visits to his teacher, which read: "Fischer spent much time at Collins' house ...." Following Strunk and White, I changed it to Collins's. Another user promptly changed it back. Does Wikipedia have a policy on this burning issue? JamesMLane 16:20, 1 Jul 2004 (UTC)
Fowler says it is down to the pronunciation. "Charles's", but "Bridges'", because of the "-iz" sound.
Ruymoultor says I've always been taught that you don't add the "s" after the apostrophe because it is superfluous and for someone reading it they would pronounce it the same (so using Occam's Razor the shorter simpler version is used) but that's just me.
The Chicago Manual of Style sides with James on this one - even if the word ends in "s", the posessive adds "'s." Though, in classic Chicago style, it does note that "feelings on these matters sometimes run high," and offers an alternative practice, which is what Ruy is noting. This alternative practice, however, is noted as being less common. There are some assorted interesting exceptions (Words where the singular looks like a plural, and the plural is the same, are always formed simly by adding an apostrophe), and one policy I object to (Company names that include a punctuation mark, which I think should be reduced to their non-logo names), but for the most part, James is correct. Snowspinner 19:50, Jul 1, 2004 (UTC)
See also Possessive Forms for some discussion of various rules and The Apostrophe. See Possessive forms for the opposite of what Strunk wants. People just don't agree, in part because dialects and idiolects differ on when or whether an s is pronounced in such cases (and may not follow any easily derived rules with obvious consistancy). This should probably be considered part of allowable spelling differences in Wikipedia unless consensus on one style can be reached. The Wikipedia entry Apostrophe notes both styles and makes no recommendation. jallan 20:43, 1 Jul 2004 (UTC)

The Elements of Style: Form the possessive singular of nouns by adding 's. Follow this rule whatever the final consonant, except for ancient names ("Jesus'") and forms such as "for righteousness' sake". Pronomimal possesives ("hers") have no apostrophe.
Even in Jesus's case I would form the possessive, to avoid confusion with the hypothetical singular "Jesu". "For goodness's sake!" [[User:Poccil|Peter O. (Talk)]] 00:16, Jul 8, 2004 (UTC)
A Pocket Style Manuel: Add -'s if the noun does not end in -s or if the noun is singular and ends in -s. Exception: ackward pronunciation ("Sophocles'"). Add -' if the noun is plural and ends in -s.
Awkward prononciation? But you'd still have to say that "Soff-o-clease-ez", no? I'd imagine the reason you don't add the 's to Sophocles is the ancient names clause listed above. Though Chicago cites Elements of Style, but does not carry over that exception, so who knows. /sigh. We should really have a style committee for this. Snowspinner 21:15, Jul 1, 2004 (UTC)
Singular "sophocle"? [[User:Poccil|Peter O. (Talk)]] 00:16, Jul 8, 2004 (UTC)
In may own dialect I would say Sophocleez works not Sophocleezez works. The second sounds wrong to me. I would also, I think, generally say Charlz house rather than Charlzez house. I say "I think" because it is hard to be sure what one actually says as opposed to what one thinks one should actually say. Charles' house was also the way I was originally taught. That doesn't mean I'm right. Others speak differently and were taught differently. But obviously usage varies in pronunciation as well as spelling. Under current rules one should probably leave possessives alone if they follow either Strunk's rules or the Fowler rules (and perhaps sometimes even when they don't?) jallan 15:08, 2 Jul 2004 (UTC)
Well, I'd say that some people were taught wrong. The question is just which people they are. :) Snowspinner 16:20, Jul 2, 2004 (UTC)
Punctuation as punctuation
When words are written about as words, they are italicised. But what is the convention when punctuation is written about as punctuation? Should the punctuation marks be italicised in the same way? I notice that there are inconsistancies within the articles about punctuation.
For example, should one write, "The & sign," or write, "The & sign"? Danikolt (Talk) 22:03, 19 Nov 2004 (UTC)
How about something like: "The ampersand (&) is..." —Mike 23:28, Nov 19, 2004 (UTC)
In other words, a punctuation symbol should never be used directly, but referred to by name instead. The symbol should only be used the first time that it is referred to, in which case it should be enclosed in parentheses. Danikolt (Talk) 14:54, 22 Nov 2004 (UTC)
That's a good idea. Maurreen 16:03, 22 Nov 2004 (UTC)
Hyphens
Aside from the discussion about different kinds of dashes, is there advice, here or on one of the other pages, about when to use a hyphen in spelling a word? For example, I usually use a hyphen if the prefix re is attached to a word beginning with a vowel, so as not to create a false dipthong that might momentarily confuse the reader: re-elect, re-align, etc. I bring this up because I've seen an edit that, among other changes, deleted such hyphens, changing previous forms to reelected and reestablish. (Hyphens are also appropriate when the prefix could otherwise be read as creating a different word, e.g., to sign again is re-sign because resign means something else.) JamesMLane 19:42, 30 Nov 2004 (UTC)
Yes. But I forget where it is. I have most definitely read a sensible set of guidelines here on Wikipedia on its usage though. zoney ♣ talk 20:17, 30 Nov 2004 (UTC)
Since we don't know where it is, how about we add it? Here's the rule from the AP style guide:
"Except for 'cooperate' and 'coordinate', use a hypen if the prefix ends in a vowel and the word that follows begins with the same vowel."
Of course, if anyone can word this better, or would like to use a different style guide as a source, that is fine with me. Maurreen 07:22, 1 Dec 2004 (UTC)
Just to clarify, that's not the entire entry. Maurreen 05:58, 2 Dec 2004 (UTC)
I would also hyphenate re-align and other such words, though not covered by the rule you suggest. A reader seeing realign has seen enough words using "real" as a beginning that there'd be a momentary hitch while the reader sorts out that this isn't the familia ea combination and the familiar "real" beginning, but something else. The hyphen averts that. By the way, does the AP guide also address instances like re-sign? JamesMLane 07:34, 1 Dec 2004 (UTC)
It's one of the examples the AP Stylebook gives for the handling of the re prefix. "For many other words, the sense is the governing factor: ... resign (quit) re-sign (sign again)". Our style guide should probably state this position as well, as there's great potential for confusion otherwise; I once heard of an instance in which someone forwarded an email from her boss, and told him "I resent your email." Factitious 08:14, Dec 1, 2004 (UTC)
Good points, and some humor, too, which this page needs. :) Maurreen 08:27, 1 Dec 2004 (UTC)
I think I may have been only be thinking of what I had read at hyphen. If there are guidelines on hyphen usage already, or we are drafting such, we should probably ensure that article matches our practice. zoney ♣ talk 23:54, 1 Dec 2004 (UTC)
It's interesting that the article on hyphen misuses a hyphen, in the phrase "slightly-tilted slash". I'll correct that and add the point that a compound phrase in which an adverb modifies an adjective, with the phrase then modifying a noun, generally doesn't need a hyphen because it's unambiguous. (In this example, "slightly" can't modify "slash".) Perhaps we should include this in the MoS. Even if we do, people will still write "wholly-owned subsidiary", but we can at least try to stop them. JamesMLane 00:39, 2 Dec 2004 (UTC)
If the word is listed in a standard dictionary, then no hyphen should be used. Lots of dictionaries list "realign" and "reelect" as words, and therefore no hyphen should be used. If a word with "re" in front of it is not a standard form but rather a neologism, then use the hyphen ("re-") until the word is common enough to become a standard form. —Lowellian (talk)[[]] 21:46, Dec 3, 2004 (UTC)
"Standard dictionary" is a tall order! But in any case, I feel hyphens should be used with the "re" prefixes. Pairs of vowel letters such as ee and ea are single vowel sounds in English, so omitting the hyphen from re-align and re-elect indeed interrupts the flow of the language being read - the reader has to mentally divide the two vowel letters into two separate vowel instances. However, both forms are in common use, so once again I suggest we do not attempt to offer advice on this (i.e. force a rule), save perhaps mentioning the issue. zoney ♣ talk 00:03, 6 Dec 2004 (UTC)
For the reason stated by Zoney, I would hyphenate re-align but not reopen. The difference is that "eo" isn't used as a single vowel sound. Still, if the "rule" that's settled on is that re-align and realign are both OK, then the MoS should at least state that, so people don't waste time changing one to the other. JamesMLane 00:38, 6 Dec 2004 (UTC)
But User:Factitious's comments about the differences between "resent" and "re-sent" and similar words have merit, so hyphens should be used in those cases to make clear what is meant. —Lowellian (talk)[[]] 21:52, Dec 3, 2004 (UTC)
My dictionary says "re-elect or reelect". And it also gives 'realign' but not 're-align'; I think the latter form is unnecessary because there is no ambiguity as there might be with a word like 'resent'. For separating the prefix and root of words, the dictionary gives these examples:
prefix + proper noun or adjective (anti-Nazi, pro-Nazi)
some prefixes ending in a vowel + root beginning with a vowel (re-election, co-author)
stressed prefix + root word if absence of hyphen could cause misunderstanding of meanings (re-form/reform, re-cover/recover, re-creation/recreation)
Perhaps examples like these should be included and otherwise leave well-enough alone. We shouldn't have to construct a list of approved words. —Mike 01:45, Dec 6, 2004 (UTC)
This conversation perhaps ought to be mentioned on the talk page for the style guide page on dashes.
Also, I don't feel strongly about this, but on further thought, I wonder if there is a real need for this to be added to the style guide at all. Maurreen 05:56, 7 Dec 2004 (UTC)
I don't have my CMOS handy, but I'm pretty sure it says not to hyphenate prefixes at all unless (a) the second part is capitalized (e.g., anti-Nazi but antidisestablishmentarianism) or (b) omitting the hyphen would change the sense of the word (e.g., re-sent but realign). I believe British usage tends toward more hyphenation, though. I note that, from my perspective, the AP style guide is not a reliable guide to good usage; it advocates many usages that are unacceptable in formal English (and will get a writer in trouble, for example, with an academic editor), in part because of its orientation toward wire services with primitive teletype equipment (e.g., IIRC it advocates never using italics and omitting all accent marks and diacriticals on non-English names). —Tkinias 20:28, 7 Dec 2004 (UTC)
Possessives of words ending in 's'
There is currently a bit of controversy over whether Wikipedia writers should follow AP conventions or Strunk and White's conventions for dealing with possessives of words that end in 's'. For example, is it "Texas' Law" or "Texas's Law"? It would be nice if the Wikipedia Manual of Style could provide some guidance on this. Some articles have been reverted back and forth many times due to this controversy.
AP Style Guidelines: SINGULAR PROPER NAMES ENDING IN S: Use only an apostrophe: Achilles’ heel, Agnes’ book, Ceres’ rites, Descartes’ theories, Dickens’ novels, Euripides’ dramas, Hercules’ labors, Jesus’ life, Jules’ seat, Kansas’ schools, Moses’ law, Socrates’ life, Tennessee Williams’ plays, Xerxes’ armies.
Strunk and White's Elements of Style (used by US Government and others): Form the possessive singular of nouns with 's. Follow this rule whatever the final consonant. Thus write, Charles's friend, Burns's poems, the witch's malice.
Using either "s's" or "s'" is standard English - there's no reason for us to prefer one form over another. I don't see why there should be a controversy - unless those who prefer one form over another seek to impose their views on those who prefer the other form. Use whatever seems sensible at the time. jguk 23:51, 14 Jan 2005 (UTC)
I'm not sure that AP style is always the best. The AP guide also says don't use a comma before the 'and' in a series while the Elements of Style and Oxford's guide do. —Mike 00:25, Jan 15, 2005 (UTC)
Be careful on the Oxford comma. Its use (except where it is necessary to avoid ambiguity) is generally considered optional - with some style guides recommending its usage and others recommending using it only where necessary to avoid ambiguity, jguk 00:49, 15 Jan 2005 (UTC)
Since AP is a style guide for newspapers, where space is at a premium, it often chooses rules which result in fewer characters. It's not necessarily a good guide to use for books, or for Wikipedia, where space is less of an issue. - Nunh-huh 00:58, 15 Jan 2005 (UTC)
If both are acceptable, it would be nice if the Wikipedia Manual of Style stated that both are acceptable, as there are definitely those out there seeking to impose their views on those who prefer the other form regardless of what is sensible. Kaldari 00:52, 15 Jan 2005 (UTC)
Style guides don't determine "correctness": they represent sometimes arbitrary choices between correct usages to obtain unifomity of style. This is probably unattainable at Wikipedia, where there's no authority to make such arbitrary choices. - Nunh-huh 00:58, 15 Jan 2005 (UTC)
If that's true then why does WIkipedia have a style guide at all? You presumption that it is only possible for "authorities" to make decisions about style seems a bit rash to me. Surely we can reach a reasonable decision that will help those seeking clarification, even if the decision is only to declare both styles acceptable. Otherwise this argument will continue to be played out over and over again across many separate articles with no resolution. Let's hash it out here so that people will have something to refer to at least. Kaldari 01:08, 15 Jan 2005 (UTC)
Standards fall into three categories: (1) Things where the clearly is a "right" and "wrong" and where it is important that things be "right" (e.g. spelling of words where there is only one standard spelling). (2) Things where there is legitimate disagreement about a consequential matter, and where we probably need to tolerate diversity (e.g. U.S. vs. UK English). (3) Things that are so trivial that almost any sane standard is better than no standard, because uniformity is more important than any particular resolution of the matter. This is an example of the last. -- Jmabel | Talk 01:29, Jan 15, 2005 (UTC)
I agree completely - but I fear that here are at least some users who will refuse to recognize class (3)<g>. - Nunh-huh 02:19, 15 Jan 2005 (UTC)
BTW, it looks like this issue was already discussed here back in July, but nothing came of it: Talk Archive 6. Kaldari 02:20, 15 Jan 2005 (UTC)
It looks like it was already mentioned in the previous discussion, but let me add what my personal favorite style guide has to say about it:
The Chicago Manual of Style (15th edition): "The possessive of most singular nouns is formed by adding an s, and the possessive of plural nouns (except for a few irregular plurals that do not end in s) by adding an apostrophe only...The general rule covers most proper nouns, including names ending in s, x, or z, in both their singular and plural forms, as well as letters and numbers" (emphasis theirs). They give examples such as "Kansas's legislature", "Burns's poems", "Marx's theories", and so on. They also mention the alternative style, for those that do not like this method.
Aside from Chicago's support, there are other reasons I think this is appropriate. Why should "Texas's law" be any different from "Nebraska's law"? They are both pronounced equivalently. Texas is not a plural, and there is no need to use plural possessive forms with it. Nor would just adding an apostrophe avoid ambuguity; rather, it can actually further it (is Roberts' work the work of one Roberts [Julia Roberts] or the work of multiple Roberts?). Using just an apostrophe when words end in s, regardless of why they end in s, seems a bit artificial to me. — Knowledge Seeker দ (talk) 18:52, 15 Jan 2005 (UTC)
Most people pronounce "Texas' Law" differently than "Texas's Law". In fact, it is considered orthodox practice to pronounce them differently [1]. I suspect this is why the exception for words that end in s was created in the first place -- to eliminate awkward pronunciations. Take for example, "goodness' sake". That phrase is almost universally pronounced without the extra s sound regardless of whether the extra s is written. Otherwise it would sound quite awkward. "Olbers' paradox" is certainly easier to pronounce than "Olbers's paradox". The former sounds much more natural, thus the tradition of spelling it without the extra s. Whatever standard we decide on, I think we should make consideration for established exceptions, i.e. phrases that have always been spelled a certain way by convention regardless of standards. Kaldari 19:42, 15 Jan 2005 (UTC)
Fowler's Modern English Usage (a standard for British English) suggests dropping the post-apostriphal s if it is unvoiced. This still leaves something of a chicken and egg problem -- is it spelled because of how it's pronounced, or is it pronounced because of how it's spelled? Kaldari 19:57, 15 Jan 2005 (UTC)
I don't think it is a problem. The writer would spell it the way he pronounces it, and the reader would pronounce it the way the writer spelled it. Simple! —Mike 20:12, Jan 15, 2005 (UTC)
I started that earlier discussion (the one now in Talk Archive 6). The Strunk and White style still seems better to me. Olbers's paradox is preferable because hearing Olbers' paradox (pronounced "Olbers" instead of "Olberses") will lead some people to think that it's Olber's paradox. Nevertheless, that particular example, like for goodness' sake, might be a candidate for an exception, something like: "Form the possessive singular of nouns with 's. Follow this rule whatever the final consonant. Exception: Omit the s after the apostrophe if a particular possessive has become generally known without the final s." One argument advanced at Wikipedia:Requested moves#Olbers's paradox → Olbers' paradox is that this particular phrase, which dates back to Olbers's work in 1823, is more often written as Olbers' paradox. I admit that making such an exception would lead to sentences like "Olbers's students were initially confused by his explanation of Olbers' paradox." JamesMLane 22:30, 15 Jan 2005 (UTC)
It looks like all the main style guides, with the exception of the AP's, recommend using the s. Also I should mention that I did not quote Chicago's entire recommendation; in particular, they mention, "To avoid an awkward appearance, an apostrophe without an s may be used for the possessive of singular words and names ending in an unpronounced s. Opt for this practice only if you are comfortable with it and are certain that the s is indeed unpronounced." Examples: "Descartes' three dreams", "the marquis' mother". Also, "For...sake expressions traditionally omit the s when the noun ends in an s or an s sound." Examples: "for righteousness' sake", "for goodness' sake". James, your proposal sounds quite reasonable to me. — Knowledge Seeker দ (talk) 23:45, 15 Jan 2005 (UTC)
I wouldn't want to be prescriptive on this point. Besides, any instructions would largely be ignored by those who prefer the opposite approach. Burchfield in Fowler's Modern English Usage recommends just using an apostrophe in classical names, eg Herodotus', Socrates', Themistocles', etc. Note also that the official names of various institutions/places adopt differing approaches - for instance, it's not too difficult to find some institutions starting with "St James's" and others with "St James'", jguk 08:14, 17 Jan 2005 (UTC)
How does this sound:
Possessives ending in s
Authoritative sources differ on how to handle possessive nouns that end with the letter s. Some say to add an apostrophe and an s at the end. Other say to just add an apostrophe. Still others say it depends on whether the word is a proper noun, the s is pronounced a certain way, or a variety of other conditions are met. Because there does not seem to be a widespread consensus on how to handle possessives ending in s, both usages are considered acceptable in Wikipedia. In general, whichever usage of a particular word or phrase is most common should be used. For example, Olbers' paradox is more commonly used than Olbers's paradox.
Kaldari 17:27, 17 Jan 2005 (UTC)
Too many "somes" - and I don't like the use of the word authoritative. Maybe we could lift something from The Times and adapt it, for example (the bit not in italics is my addition, and I have redacted a small bit) jguk 19:15, 17 Jan 2005 (UTC):
with proper names/nouns ending in s that are singular, follow the rule of writing what is voiced, eg, Keats's poetry, Sobers's batting, The Times's style (or Times style); and with names where the final "s" is soft, use the "s" apostrophe, eg, Rabelais' writings, Delors' presidency. Note that with Greek names of more than one syllable that end in "s", do not use the apostrophe "s", eg, Aristophanes' plays, Achilles' heel, Socrates' life, Archimedes' principle. Beware that some people voice "s" that others don't, and this will change how they write the words. Some write "Jesus'" others "Jesus's". Also beware of organisations that have variations as their house style, eg, St Thomas' Hospital, where we must respect their whim. Also, take care with apostrophes with plural nouns, eg, women's, not womens'; children's, not childrens'; people's, not peoples'. Use the apostrophe in expressions such as two years' time, several hours' delay etc. An apostrophe should be used to indicate the plural of single letters - p's and q's
How about this:
Possessives
To form the possessive of a singular noun that ends in s, the general rule is to add an apostrophe and an s, for example, Charles's book. Exceptions to this rule are as follows:
When the final s of the noun is soft or unpronounced: Descartes' theories, Rabelais' writing
When there is a long-established tradition of adding only an apostrophe to form the possessive: Achilles' heel, goodness' sake
When the possessive is part of an organization's name and they choose to only use an apostrophe: St Thomas' Hospital
For plural nouns that do not end in s, add an apostrophe-s, for example, children's, not childrens'.
Kaldari 20:33, 17 Jan 2005 (UTC)
Nearly there, methinks. Three points:
1. Reword to say "the general rule is that where the s is pronounced separately, add an apostrophe and as s". Then the first bullet point of exceptions to the rule becomes a further example of the general rule.
2. "Proper name" would be better than "organisation" as "organisation" is too specific.
3. Sake tends to be treated differently. In Fowler's Modern English Usage Burchfield writes, "For appearances' sake, for Christ's sake, for God's sake, for Heaven's sake, for Pete's sake, for old times' sake illustrate the obligatory use of the possessive apostrpohe in such phrases, Practice varies widely in for conscience' sake and for goodness' sake, and the use of an apostrophe in them must be regarded as optional." Burchfield goes on to say that in American English sakes is sometimes used in place of sake, jguk 22:12, 17 Jan 2005 (UTC)
1. Are you talking about the s of the original noun or the possessive s? If you're talking about the possissive s, I don't like instructing people to rely on whether the extra s is pronounced or not, as whether or not the extra s is pronounced often depends on how the possessive is spelled [2]. Thus we would be sending the writer in a circle: how it's written depends on how it's pronounced and how it's pronounced depends on how it's written. That's too confusing. If you're talking about the s of the original noun, then your wording is just incorporating the initial exception into the rule itself, and I'm not sure why that would be any better than listing it as an explicit exception and keeping the rule itself simplified.
2. Agreed.
3. That seems to fall into my 2nd exception. Ideally, I'd like to refrain from starting a long list of specific exceptions like greek names, something's sake, etc. and just create a general exception for traditional spellings. Kaldari 23:05, 17 Jan 2005 (UTC)
How about a more concise way, such as this:
"Possessives of words ending in 's' may be formed with or without an additional 's'." Maurreen 05:07, 18 Jan 2005 (UTC)
I like the conciseness, but I do think there are definite cases where writers should use one or the other and it would be nice if we could provide them some guidance on that. Kaldari 15:33, 18 Jan 2005 (UTC)
That's so concise it is useless. You might as well just say, "Possessives: no standard". Or just don't say anything at all. —Mike 01:00, Jan 19, 2005 (UTC)
I actually think it's useful in some cases to point out that we have no standard. This provides an authoritative resource to cite if there is a dispute. (I.e. "no, we don't need to standardize all references to plural possessives; Wikipedia permits either usage".) -Aranel ("Sarah") 01:31, 19 Jan 2005 (UTC)
If we are to explicitly state we have no preference, we need to be more explicit than Maurreen. Perhaps something along the lines of, "Where, a standard form of English permits possessives of words ending in 's' to be formed with or without an additional 's', we have no preference between those styles", jguk 01:44, 19 Jan 2005 (UTC)
OK, how does this sound:
Possessives
Opinions differ on how to form the possessive of singular nouns that end with the letter s. Some sources say to add an apostrophe and an s at the end. Others say to just add an apostrophe. Because there does not seem to be a widespread consensus on how to handle possessives of this form, both usages are considered acceptable in Wikipedia. In general, whichever usage of a particular word or phrase is most common should be used. For example, Achilles' heel is more commonly used than Achilles's heel.
For plural nouns that do not end in s, add an apostrophe and an s to form the possessive, for example, children's, not childrens'.
Kaldari 03:19, 23 Jan 2005 (UTC)
How about getting to the point more quickly, like this:
"Possessives of words ending in 's' may be formed with or without an additional 's'." Either is generally acceptable within Wikipedia. But if either form is much more common for a particular word or phrase, follow that form, such as with 'Achilles' heel'." Maurreen 22:47, 23 Jan 2005 (UTC)
I added your suggested guideline to the Usage and Spelling section. Kaldari 07:57, 26 Jan 2005 (UTC)
Retrieved from "https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia_talk:Manual_of_Style/Archive_(punctuation)&oldid=97331602"
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attrs: id class

values: mw-page-base noprint

values: mw-head-base noprint

value: a

attrs: id class lang

values: firstHeading firstHeading en

values: siteSub noprint

attrs: href title

value: span

attrs: class href

values: mw-jump-link #mw-head

values: mw-jump-link #p-search

value: img

attrs: alt src width height srcset data-file-width data-file-height

value: b

value: tbody

value: table

attrs: class role

values:
plainlinks tmbox tmbox-notice
presentation

value: input

attrs: type role id class style

values: checkbox button toctogglecheckbox toctogglecheckbox display:none

value: label

attrs: class for

values: toctogglelabel toctogglecheckbox

values:
/wiki/Occam%27s_Razor
mw-redirect
Occam's Razor

values:
/wiki/Oxford_comma
mw-redirect
Oxford comma

values:
catlinks
catlinks catlinks-allhidden
interface

values: Discussion about edits from this IP address [ctrl-alt-n]

values: A list of edits made from this IP address [ctrl-alt-y]

values: You are encouraged to create an account and log in; however, it is not mandatory

values: You're encouraged to log in; however, it's not mandatory. [ctrl-alt-o]

values: View the project page (page does not exist) [ctrl-alt-c]

values: Discussion about the content page [ctrl-alt-t]

values: Featured content – the best of Wikipedia

values: Find background information on current events

values:
/wiki/Special:Random
Load a random article [ctrl-alt-x]
x

values: portal navigation p-navigation p-navigation-label

values: Guidance on how to use and edit Wikipedia

values: About the project, what you can do, where to find things

values: A list of recent changes in the wiki [ctrl-alt-r]

values: portal navigation p-interaction p-interaction-label

values: List of all English Wikipedia pages containing links to this page [ctrl-alt-j]

values: Recent changes in pages linked from this page [ctrl-alt-k]

values:
/wiki/Wikipedia:File_Upload_Wizard
Upload files [ctrl-alt-u]
u

values: A list of all special pages [ctrl-alt-q]

values: Permanent link to this revision of the page

values: Printable version of this page [ctrl-alt-p]

values: mediawiki ltr sitedir-ltr mw-hide-empty-elt ns-5 ns-talk page-Wikipedia_talk_Manual_of_Style_Archive_punctuation rootpage-Wikipedia_talk_Manual_of_Style skin-vector action-view